Curse

Red · Dec 31, 2007, 06:37 PM // 18:37

Disclaimer: I didn't see a thread already existing here. Please advise if there is.
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Main request: officially implement some form of the recent Map Anywhere bug

Reasons
-) Increase in product life
-) Increase in guild, alliance, friendly activities
-) Convergence with PvP model
-) Increased secondary sales
-) Negligible negative effects

Space at the bottom, where I'll add in points raised in the thread.

EDIT: Secondary point raised by BioStem during thread discussion. What if, instead of this original post's suggested dramatic solution, there instead be some way to mildly push other PvE characters through. Perhaps as your PvE characters progress through the game, your account would gain "credits" which would allow you to skip a mission here, a quest there? It would allow you to raise other PvE characters faster than the first (to say nothing of skipping the more tedious parts!), but would also not be nearly as dramatic or eliminate the incentive to play through the game on a character...
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So.
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10234113
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10238230

Quote:

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Game_updates/20071230
Fixed an exploit which allowed players to access outposts they had not previously unlocked.

A recent glitch appeared in Guild Wars, which through a rather simple "hop skip and a jump" method allowed one player to essentially ferry another to any town throughout the game. Even on holiday, the crew at ANet worked to shut down the bug (and rightly so!), in fact requiring at least two game updates to properly close the loophole.

However, I would suggest that this handy little bug reappear, in some form where "it's a feature, not a bug". In my opinion, the good outweighs the bad if such a thing were to happen.

-) INCREASED PRODUCT LIFE
The bottom line for ANet is sales revenue, yes? The more games ANet sales, the more profitable it is. It is in ANet's best interests, then, to encourage further sales even this late into Guild Wars' life cycle, in which no further expansions are planned.

This is sort of the "meta-reason" for my argument, as this is (rightly) the only business motivation for ANet to imlpement any change. While it's good that our devs should have an interest in increasing the sheer fun factor, we can not forget that they run a business, and that they must prioritize their devs' time according to what will provide the most benefit--and one of the beneficiaries of their efforts must be Net Income.

With that in mind, let me present to you these further reasons, which by themselves I feel are legitimate arguments, but which also serve as subsidary supports for Increased Product Life and thus Increased Bottom Line

-) INCREASED GUILD, ALLIANCE, FRIENDLY ACTIVITIES
We've all heard a PvEer complain about how, despite their love for playing the game, they just can't bring themselves to push an Ele through Nightfall to the Domain of Anguish after already having finished the campaign with a Warrior, Paragon, Monk, Necro, and Ranger. There's a sort of fatigue that sets in; few can endure 290342 runs through Dzagonur Bastion and Konodur Crossroads, to say nothing of the million Primary Quests between missions that require inordinate amounts of running through zones over and over again.

One of the best things ANet did was allow Hard Mode to be an account-wide unlock. As soon as one character finishes a campaign, all level 20 characters on the account may access hard mode. This helped the above situation--pushing the Ele through the campaign might be just a bit more fun and feasible, if done as part of a guild-wide effort to play Hard Mode in Elona.

Now, this is (very) debatable, but I would assert that Guild Wars is... well, not dying, but at least a lot less active than it used to be. Even if Guild Wars had maintained a constant level of activity since two years ago, now there are 3.5 campaigns for that pool of players to spread out across, making it less likely to meet up with people--especially in zones players avoided anyway. I'm looking at you, Maguuma Jungle.

With the situation as it is, then, a lot of the game becomes a solo adventure, which is exactly what ANet was hoping to avoid, right? Don't we all remember the days before heroes, when players asked for customizable henchmen, and one of the arguments Gaile stated against them was that their presence would discourage efforts to meet, and play with, other people?

People, I believe, want to play high-end areas together. When gathering guild groups, often an otherwise well-prepared group simply needs one more monk--but alas, says an eighth guildmate, "my monk isn't that far". We'd like to go to Domain of Anguish, but so many have only taken their one or two roleplaying characters through Nightfall, so a guild ends up with a possible team of 6 warriors and 5 eles, with few monks or paragons.

By allowing some form of expedient zoning, alliances and friends would find it easier to form groups, as more players would be encouraged to play a variety of professions in areas they might otherwise not have had the gumption to reach. Certainly the promise of more organized PvE runs would encourage players to keep playing this game--and perhaps buy campaigns they had not purchased yet. (Really, don't we all know people who still haven't gotten EotN, or who got Factions and Nightfall but were never on board for Prophecies?)

-) CONVERGENCE WITH PVP MODEL
The PvP setup, to be honest, I think is incredible. Roll characters at will, toss on equipment and skills... with the exception of a few rather minor discrepencies such as being able to take old school req 7 shields into GvG, it's really a great game--and a necessary ingredient that made Guild Wars PvP successful.

Can you imagine what it would have been, had PvP been permenantly linked to PvE by requiring you use only your PvE characters? GW would have had balanced PvP, but not accessible PvP. ANet wouldn't have drawn nearly the PvP crowd that they did. Thus, we have instantly rolled PvP characters.

The argument carries over into Guild Wars PvE. Because Guild Wars is unlike EverCrack and WoW in that grind does not reward a player with epic (statistically different) armor and weaponry, there is little to be lost by allowing characters to advance through the campaigns quickly. However, I suspect that by opening up the entire PvE realm in a similar manner that PvP is open to new accounts, then we would witness a similar increase in interest.

-) INCREASED SECONDARY SALES
Instantly mappable towns encourages players to run more characters.
More characters mean more slots.
There are 10 total professions that can be played.
Three Campaigns = 8 slots total.
Also, many players may have two characters of one profession, or use PvP slots.

Where will the additional needed slots come from? Yay for Revenue!

In addition to selling more character slots, players will be rolling PvE Eles to warp to Domain of Anguish. However, it is very conceivable that players will not have gathered nearly as many elementalist skills through the game as they would like to have on a high-end Ele. Right now, there are only two ways to gather skills. For normal skills, buy them or use tomes on unlocked skills. For Elites, go out and cap them or use tomes on unlocked skills.

Granted, opening up towns would make capping elites easier; but there are still a LOT of elites to cap, and that can take some time. even if you had every outpost mapped. For players with the money for tomes, it would be easier--and arguably more cost-effective considering time spent capping--to simply unlock the skills and use tomes to learn skills. And, of course, there are two ways to unlock skills in order to use tomes. One is to PvP the faction.

And the other is to buy the unlock packs. ^_^

-) NEGLIGIBLE NEGATIVE EFFECTS
This is where it gets really tricky. If a change to the game chases away too many people (or any?), then it's bad for business as well as the gaming experience. No matter how well it cures the itch of athlete's foot, few people would be willing to cut off their foot.

However, I contend that implementing some for of expedient mapping would not substantially alter the game. I base this argument on a few ideas:

1) Low Economy Disruption
Some areas can be run already, and are in fact being run for profit. Others, like Consulate Docks, require ferries but are nonetheless desired. Implementing fast mapping would not create or destroy markets, but would rather only expand and replace this current running market.

Some people have brought up the good point that the ability to spam character creation disrupts the Book of Secrets, Amulet of the Mists, and Droknar's Key items at the end of Nightfall, Factions, and EotN respectively. I contend, however, that these items are relatively cheap (and pointless) already. Moreover, what are the prices of these end-game items now? 20k? 10k?

It's true that as supply rises with character creation spam, prices will fall... but we're talking the loss of a market of 10k items which require playing through an entire campaign to obtain? Are we really worried about losing out a market which affords 10k only if you take the time to finish a campaign--and for most of us, only as many times as we have character slots? If you're worried about losing 10k, go do some Kurzick FFF for an hour or three. Much faster than finishing a campaign ^_~

((By the way, it'd only be the sellers who would be losing out here, too. Buyers who previously were spending 10k an item would not be able to engage in character creation spam themselves to get the items!))

2) Desertion of other zones
You may ask, "Great, we get more players rushing to Domain of Anguish--but what happens to Pogahn Passage?" It's true, by making high-end areas more accessible to players, there will be a pull away from more obscure PvE areas.

However, there are two counters to this concern. First, It's not necessarily true that gaining more players in one area means they were pulled away from another. I think that many of the players who would rush to high-end areas were not really playing Pogahn Passage anyway. If they were, we wouldn't need to encourage them to make new characters with this whole idea!

Furthermore, I believe that fast mapping would actually increase players, rather than decrease. Grand Court of Selbekeh, for example, is fairly far into Nightfall. Players who are not encouraged to play through the campaign will obviously not appear at Grand Court. However, as previously stated, guild and alliance groups will be encouraged to try other missions--for titles, for capping, for pride's sake--that they might otherwise never have played if they were made more accessible. Because of this, there will be more players who, able to skip the bother of playing through an entire campaign and its primary quests, will play these more obscure missions.

3) It disrupts the storyline / unfair to let other people push through
-_- Ahem.
For you, it only disrupts the storyline if you use it. If you're that concerned with the story--if part of your joy in the game comes from the immersion you get as a character bravely questing across the continent, then by all means! Do so!

It is gravely unjust, however, to link your enjoyment to the actions of other peopel that do not affect you. I'm not talking about those of you with concerns about the economic affects of fast mapping. I'm talking about those of you who just flat out don't want other people rushing through the game. Those of you who were downright thrilled that Factions was a game largely made of locked gates, because it would keep other people from running.

How selfish of you. Tsk.

This game is many things to many people--balanced PvP, a place to relax and grind a few Kurzick faction points, a settings for guild-organized high-end runs... for some people, they would love playing as different characters through the missions, or being able to ALWAYS respond to their alliance's "We need an obsidian flesh ele for underworld", without ever having to say "sorry, I'm not that far".

Giving them the ability to do that increases their fun, and does not harm your ability to play directly. As such--when the implementation of fast mapping means good things for them without restraining you--what's the problem?

-) CONCLUSION
^_^ So then. I welcome (intelligent) thoughts and (reasoned) discussion about this sort of thing. So far as I can tell, making this change would encourage people to play the game more--I know it would encourage me, at least.

And I know that, whereas a year ago I was encouraging friends to buy Guild Wars, now I'm really not because it's become a niche game. You either have your characters far enough into high-end to appreciate those PvE runs (and have grown to love GW enough to push a character through once in a while), or else you're into GvG. Obviously that doesn't sum up everyone, but I've noticed that this is a really hard game to get into as a newbie now, because so many can't be bothered to push through the campaign again outside of organized guild pushes.

I think, just as PvP's accessiblity has allowed it to be a draw to both veterans and new players, so also would PvE's accessibility open up new opportunies for players across the board.

~ Red
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-) Points raised in the thread
I'm not making a specific suggestion for how to do this. Maybe make towns unlockable, where all characters on an account share one map? Or, what if an NPC will ferry you to any unlocked town on the account for 100 gold? I'm not really specific on how this would be implemented--just that it is! (thanks Arkantos)

Maybe only let level 20s be ferried, to cut back on character creation spam? (thanks Shakti)

There are several other relatively minor issues, such as character creation spam for buried treasures. Well, I call them minor because they are simple to talk about, but of course who can predict the amount of coding necessary to account for them? Just the same, it is very important to analyze all effects, both positive and negative, and I think the buried treasure spam would be relatively economy-shattering if left unchecked. (thanks Jaythen)

When ANet wanted to encourage activity for EotN, they lowered the level requirement for characters to level 10. Do you see what they did there? They allowed characters to access areas earlier than they previously could! Do you see the comparison?

IMPORTANT POINT
What if completing PvE with a character gave your account some amount of, say, "credits"... and as you raised your PvE characters, you could use these credits to skip small portions of the game, such as a mission or two here, a primary quest or three there. It would allow you to more quickly raise PvE characters after the first, but it would also not be NEARLY as dramatic as a free mapping NPC. A happy medium, ne? (special thanks to BioStem for fleshing out this idea)

lyra_song · Dec 31, 2007, 06:39 PM // 18:39

/unsigned.

I'd rather actually play the game.

Faer: No u

Inde · Dec 31, 2007, 06:45 PM // 18:45

I think it's interesting. I can actually see a lot of the Pros and Cons of it all. I don't know if Red addressed it (YES I SKIMMED) but after GW2 comes out this might just be a great feature for GW1 for someone to dive in.

Arkantos · Dec 31, 2007, 06:46 PM // 18:46

So basically the suggestion is once one of your characters have completed a campaign, all of your characters would be able to map anywhere (or at least to any outpost where the character who has beaten the game has accessed)?

fallot · Dec 31, 2007, 06:47 PM // 18:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

I'd rather actually play the game.

What you want to say is; I'd rather adhere to the designers vision of the game. This is sort of kind of commendable, but in this case the exploit (I feel) added a lot more to the game than it took away. Do you not agree that Red's points have merit ?

Red · Dec 31, 2007, 06:49 PM // 18:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lyra Song

/unsigned. I'd rather actually play the game.

This isn't a question of what YOU would rather do, to be honest. If you want to, great!. My question to you, ma'am, is would the implementation of this feature harm your own ability to play the game? And likewise, do you disagree with my hypotisized benefits?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

So basically the suggestion is... ?

I'm not making a specific suggestion (which may be a mistake on my part), so much as a conceptual statement. Maybe there could be an NPC to ferry you to any "unlocked" outpost for 100 gold? Maybe towns could truly be unlockable, and you have one map for all your characters? Maybe just return the guild hall NPC bug--just get fast mapping in the game in SOME fashion!

Arkantos · Dec 31, 2007, 06:53 PM // 18:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red

I'm not making a specific suggestion (which may be a mistake on my part), so much as a conceptual statement. Maybe there could be an NPC to ferry you to any "unlocked" outpost for 100 gold? Maybe towns could truly be unlockable, and you have one map for all your characters? Maybe just return the guild hall NPC bug--just get fast mapping in the game in SOME fashion!

In that case, I'd really like to be able to access an outpost once one of your characters has beaten the campaign/been to the outpost then. Nobody wants to go through Nightfall 5 times to be able to DoA with 5 different professions. Same goes for all the end-game areas. I really think this would be an interesting idea.

Abedeus · Dec 31, 2007, 07:04 PM // 19:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

In that case, I'd really like to be able to access an outpost once one of your characters has beaten the campaign/been to the outpost then. Nobody wants to go through Nightfall 5 times to be able to DoA with 5 different professions. Same goes for all the end-game areas. I really think this would be an interesting idea.

QFT

I have only Mesmer, Ranger and Elementalist in DoA. Guess what? Only Elementalist WAS useful, now it's not, thanks to Ursan Blessing. Of course, you can say ,,Get a monk, you noob! or a paragon!''

...My paragon is like 1,7k sunspear points away from And A Hero Shall Lead Them, the best example of time > skill that appeared in Nightfall.

My monk is at Rilohn Refuge, but every time I think about going through Great Court, Jennur's Horde/Nundu Bay, all Desolation crap, wurms, REALM OF TORMENT, GATE OF MADNESS... I just stop and go farm/quit GW and go play something else (Crysis, Quake Wars, Gears of War...).

So /signed.

Eviance · Dec 31, 2007, 07:04 PM // 19:04

/signed for the way Arkie sees it.

Once at least one character has been through the whole thing it can access those points. I know for a fact that the reason I didn't buy factions for my second account was because of the locked gates. It kept me from exploring which I love to do. It wasn't so much that I wanted to blitz the game but I couldn't explore past the zone without doing the missions/quests. NF tried to even those odds, but there were still a few locked gates.

Jaythen Tyradel · Dec 31, 2007, 07:09 PM // 19:09

You had me at least semi agreeing with you until you said it was selfish of players to have to endure a game/storyline for the benefit of playing.

So why should I read a book? Just get the cliff notes or go to wikipedia and read the synopsis.

Why should I watch a movie? Same as above.

The journey is part of the enjoyment. IF you find the journey too tasking or boring, maybe it isn't for you.
Plus, even new people(heck even goldsellers/spammers/famers) or low level players will use this to get to areas easier and get max armor and elites and then go back to newbie areas and proclaim how "leet" they are. Oh wait, they do that already as it is now, even before the exploit was found. To say "don't use it if you don't want to" is negligent of the fact that people will use it if they can.
You put a something in the game that gives every player a boost/benefit whether they need it or not, you bet they are going to use it.

EDIT:
Outpost ferry--ok that I may actually agree with for any character once the main mission has been beaten by at least one char on that account. Adding a cost makes a decent gold sink if there is a progressive scale of which town you will unlock. Starting at Kamadan you want to jump to Sunspear Sacntuary (1k), Bazzar (1.5k), Vortex Mission (3k).

Red · Dec 31, 2007, 07:19 PM // 19:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaythen Tyradel

You had me at least semi agreeing with you until you said it was selfish of players to have to endure a game/storyline for the benefit of playing. So why should I read a book? Just get the cliff notes or go to wikipedia and read the synopsis. Why should I watch a movie? Same as above.

The journey is part of the enjoyment. IF you find the journey too tasking or boring, maybe it isn't for you. Plus, even new people(heck even goldsellers/spammers/famers) or low level players will use this to get to areas easier and get max armor and elites and then go back to newbie areas and proclaim how "leet" they are. Oh wait, they do that already as it is now, even before the exploit was found. To say "don't use it if you don't want to" is negligent of the fact that people will use it if they can.
You put a something in the game that gives every player a boost/benefit whether they need it or not, you bet they are going to use it.

1) Why not read Wiki?
No. I said it was selfish of players to expect EVERYONE ELSE to play and enjoy the game, in the same way that you do. I recognized that you might enjoy playing the game all the way through--similar to how you will read a book.

However, other people may not want to read a book, but still want to know about it so they can talk about it intelligently with their friends who did enjoy reading through it. That is why we have Cliff's Notes, ne (and for other reasons....). If you enjoy reading a book, great! Do it! But please let the rest of us read the Cliff's Notes if we want to.

2) If you find the journey too tasking or boring, maybe it isn't for you.
To a degree, you're right. However, ANet wants to make as much money as they can from this game, correct? Also, isn't it good to give as many players as possible a fun game to play--however they choose to do it? I'm offering a way for more people to play without interfering with how you choose to play through the game or putting you at a disadvantage.

3) To say "don't use it if you don't want to" is negligent
How? I'm saying, you play how you want to, let me play how I want to. There's no problem if the people who want to use this method use it, and those who don't avoid it. With the ambraces, there was a real problem. Those who item duped were gaining large amounts of money, while those who didn't were unable to afford the inflated prices the ambrace flood was causing.

This is entirely different. If you were playing through the game, and nobody told you that I was skipping through the game.... you might likely never find out what I was doing, and you would never be left to wonder why you were at a disadvantage, because you wouldn't BE at a disadvantage. I contend that this feature would cause no one significant harm.

You, yourself, seem like someone who doesn't want to use this method, because you enjoy the journey. So go ahead! Quest! I encourage and applaud your acheivements.

However, you're really quite bad at arguing, as you addressed NONE of my points. Your points #1 and #2 are aimed at telling people how they should or should not enjoy something, and so have no basis in reason. Your point #3 is the closest to a real argument, but you didn't back it up with any reasoning; rather, you just whined about how people would use a boost to benefit themselves. Excuse me sir, but are you saying that people should not be able to choose for themselves whether to use a boost or not?

Arkantos · Dec 31, 2007, 07:22 PM // 19:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaythen Tyradel

The journey is part of the enjoyment. IF you find the journey too tasking or boring, maybe it isn't for you.
Plus, even new people(heck even goldsellers/spammers/famers) or low level players will use this to get to areas easier and get max armor and elites and then go back to newbie areas and proclaim how "leet" they are. Oh wait, they do that already as it is now, even before the exploit was found. To say "don't use it if you don't want to" is negligent of the fact that people will use it if they can.
You put a something in the game that gives every player a boost/benefit whether they need it or not, you bet they are going to use it.

The journey is part of the enjoyment, you're right. The same journey three times to be able to access an area is far from enjoyment.

Make it once you've completed the campaign, any level 20 character can access an outpost that the character who completed the campaign has been to. Your character can only go to x outposts in y hours, and has to pay z gold. Low levels can't abuse this, if you want to go to a specific outpost for whatever reason you can, for a price. It saves people hours of playing through a storyline that they've already played through.

Rohan · Dec 31, 2007, 07:23 PM // 19:23

As much as I'd love this to happen, I highly doubt it ever will. I get sick and tired of trying to get characters through campaigns I've beaten multiple times when all I want to do is get an armor I like and get my character PvP ready (because everyone knows you're just that much cooler when you use a PvE character in PvP). Pugging with people for some missions is almost impossible and this game can get kind of boring with only heroes/hench

/signed for what it's worth--since petitions on forums are in fact serious business

Red · Dec 31, 2007, 07:29 PM // 19:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rohizzle

/signed for what it's worth--since petitions on forums are in fact serious business

Hrmm. Clear thinking in Sardelec. Allow me to give you a cookie. ^_^

However, Gaile and the ANet Support Team have a habit of asking people to post their thoughts and suggestions on forums, where they can be publicly debated and reviewed and such. I somewhate share your pessimism, and yet I really can't complain about their inaction if I don't act, right?

And who knows. I like to believe that ANet devs, for all their failings, have also done a lot of things right--such as giving us a degree of attentiveness. I guess in the end "for what it's worth" is a fair summation.

Diddy bow · Dec 31, 2007, 07:40 PM // 19:40

/signed

A level 20 can go wherever, doing thunderhead keep for the 6th time isnt really fun, if you want to take your characters thourgh the normal way you still can.

Jaythen Tyradel · Dec 31, 2007, 07:46 PM // 19:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red

1) Why not read Wiki?
No. I said it was selfish of players to expect EVERYONE ELSE to play and enjoy the game, in the same way that you do. I recognized that you might enjoy playing the game all the way through--similar to how you will read a book.

However, other people may not want to read a book, but still want to know about it so they can talk about it intelligently with their friends who did enjoy reading through it. That is why we have Cliff's Notes, ne (and for other reasons....). If you enjoy reading a book, great! Do it! But please let the rest of us read the Cliff's Notes if we want to.

But are you truly benefiting from Cliff notes? Such as taking a teacher allowed cheat sheet for a test. Sure it helps, but in the end did it help you learn?
I did an edit on my post for there were posts made while I was typing up mine. I will agree to the idea of a Ferry for other chars on an account after one of the chars on that account has completed the main mission. I would agree stronger on a progressive expensive scale for which town to be "ferried" to to add a gold sink and provide a balance of having a bunch of low level chars being ferried to last missions outposts looking to be run. Sure they will still be there, but if a player (new or old) weighs the cost of the ferry and the benefit that they might get from that town or mission area then hopefully they go with the intention of getting farther without having to do all the quests again (as per your suggestion) but still feel they can accomplish a goal there.

[

Quote:

U]2) If you find the journey too tasking or boring, maybe it isn't for you.[/U]
To a degree, you're right. However, ANet wants to make as much money as they can from this game, correct? Also, isn't it good to give as many players as possible a fun game to play--however they choose to do it? I'm offering a way for more people to play without interfering with how you choose to play through the game or putting you at a disadvantage.

I agree to the point on having more options on to choose how to play a game the way you like to. I may be a bit stubborn on this, but GW isn't setup like this too much, so we have to work with what we are given. On a side not, I still don't see how more access to towns means more money for ANET. Elaborate a bit more on how this will add more sales.

[

Quote:

U]3) To say "don't use it if you don't want to" is negligent[/U]
How? I'm saying, you play how you want to, let me play how I want to. There's no problem if the people who want to use this method use it, and those who don't avoid it. With the ambraces, there was a real problem. Those who item duped were gaining large amounts of money, while those who didn't were unable to afford the inflated prices the ambrace flood was causing.

This is entirely different. If you were playing through the game, and nobody told you that I was skipping through the game.... you might likely never find out what I was doing, and you would never be left to wonder why you were at a disadvantage, because you wouldn't BE at a disadvantage. I contend that this feature would cause no one significant harm.

You, yourself, seem like someone who doesn't want to use this method, because you enjoy the journey. So go ahead! Quest! I encourage and applaud your acheivements.

Again, this post was made in relation to how I view your Original post. From the way I read it I thought you wanted even new players to have access to such a ferry.
Though I still stand by negligent part. To assume that players will use it for good is a pipe dream. There are possible side affects that must be considered. A point made about the exploit was that a player could create a new char, go to some of the buried treasure spots. Re-roll. Re-farm. Few people doing this, not a major problem. A lot of people doing this. Could have a negative impact on economy. Not a big follower of GW economy to give points on how, but you have to admit that people could use this in a way to get gold items and plat built up in thier accounts.

Second concern, low level area PVP arenas already face the issue of low level players with high end skills and armor. To current players, we know how to combat them or just avoid them. To new players, this is another reason for them to be discouraged to take PVP serious or even try it out. Not all players will think this way

Quote:

However, you're really quite bad at arguing, as you addressed NONE of my points. Your points #1 and #2 are aimed at telling people how they should or should not enjoy something, and so have no basis in reason. Your point #3 is the closest to a real argument, but you didn't back it up with any reasoning; rather, you just whined about how people would use a boost to benefit themselves. Excuse me sir, but are you saying that people should not be able to choose for themselves whether to use a boost or not?

I don't feel as though I was bad at my arguments, I tried to be simplistic as possible with my dislikes to avoid a long drawn out post. Guess I should have gone for that instead.

As a stated, if your idea is for a players other chars on thier account to have a "ferry" access, then I will /sign (though I like the idea of a cost being added as a gold sink/weighed benefit to provide some balance to a possible vast movement of low level players to high end areas).
Think I covered everything. Good topic to discuss.

Esprit · Dec 31, 2007, 07:51 PM // 19:51

/signed

I have played each campaign multiple characters through, and the main reason I choose not to push other characters through is because I've done the story line many times already, and the thought of having to do some of the more tedious missions, again, sucks all motivation from me.

I would support a ferry-for-fee type of NPC.

Operative 14 · Dec 31, 2007, 07:52 PM // 19:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaythen Tyradel

You had me at least semi agreeing with you until you said it was selfish of players to have to endure a game/storyline for the benefit of playing.

So why should I read a book? Just get the cliff notes or go to wikipedia and read the synopsis.

Why should I watch a movie? Same as above.

The journey is part of the enjoyment. IF you find the journey too tasking or boring, maybe it isn't for you.

What he said was that it was selfish of someone to say that others should have to play through the game becuase of that single persons moralistic views on the subject. Not that they were selfish becuase they wanted to play through the game. On both points, I agree with him. And I imagine that you wouldn't want to read the entire Lord of the Rings trilogy 5+ times becuase you enjoy a certain three page passage towards the end...?

I think the best way to do it would be to impliment a system like they had in Prophicies for all the campaigns. All characters can basically be run anywhere they want, so long as they have either the skill, the friends, or the gold to get them there. It would stimulate the economy via the gold trade with the runners; They could make choke points throughout the game so there are certain places that you have to play through, making thoe areas, at least, a hotbed of activity.

I agree with the OP's original post wholeheartedly, and I must compliment him on a clear and percise argument.

____
Edit:
Jeez, get up from writing a post and 5 minutes later it's already been responded to

Jaythen Tyradel · Dec 31, 2007, 07:58 PM // 19:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Operative 14

What he said was that it was selfish of someone to say that others should have to play through the game becuase of that single persons moralistic views on the subject. Not that they were selfish becuase they wanted to play through the game. On both points, I agree with him. And I imagine that you wouldn't want to read the entire Lord of the Rings trilogy 5+ times becuase you enjoy a certain three page passage towards the end...?

I think the best way to do it would be to impliment a system like they had in Prophicies for all the campaigns. All characters can basically be run anywhere they want, so long as they have either the skill, the friends, or the gold to get them there. It would stimulate the economy via the gold trade with the runners; They could make choke points throughout the game so there are certain places that you have to play through, making thoe areas, at least, a hotbed of activity.

I agree with the OP's original post wholeheartedly, and I must compliment him on a clear and percise argument.

Just to make a point: at first reading, I did not agree. Second reading and after seeing the suggestion on a cost to have the ferry, I am more agreeable to the idea now. There are still concerns that I have with the how's and alternate affects that could result from this, but overall, I am liking the idea better now.

Artemis Elune · Dec 31, 2007, 08:16 PM // 20:16

/signed

i like the Ferry NPC idea to pay map to places that you have unlocked on previous characters